Cardinals Diaspora - A St. Louis Cardinals blog
The United Cardinal Bloggers is an alliance of people that, well, blog about the Cardinals.
Some do it better than others, but I think we can all agree that Cards Diaspora is the bastard stepchild of the whole operation. So when the UCB's winter project was announced, they wanted to leave us off the 'Question of the Day' roundtable. I cried and bitched and moaned until they let us particiapate.
Here's how it works -- A member of the roundtbale posts a question, the others that want to reply, do. The posts are collected and made into one big blog entry. So... read below. Click on some of the links. Explore the mystery that is blogging.
We asked the question:
"In a few hours Mike Matheny will be named manager of the St. Louis Cardinals. Let's help a brother out. Kick one player off his new team. Remember, the one you exile will never be allowed to play for the Cardinals again and the organization will receive nothing in return. The Cardinals will, however, not be obligated to this contract. Make it a professional decision. Make it a personal decision. Make it a good decision."
Here are the reponses from around Cardinal Nation...
Daniel Shoptaw (C70 At The Bat) -- As much as I'd hate to do it, I think I'd give Jake Westbrook his walking papers. There are a couple of options (Edwin Jackson, Roy Oswalt) that I'd rather see in the 2012 rotation and Westbrook's contract is preventing that.
Daniel Solzman (Redbirds Fun) -- If it means being able to bring Mark in to the rotation, then Westbrook most likely. My second choice is Theriot.
Tom Knuppel (Cardinals GM) -- Arthur Rhodes. With a younger Mike Matheny as manager the need for the wily veterans may be more of a thing of the past. Lefty relievers can be had from the market, so let's do that.
Ray DeRousse (STL Cardinal Baseball) -- Westbrook without any hesitation. He's currently competing with Kyle Lohse for the dubious title of worst contract on this team. This little Dave Duncan project has been a total bust, and his contract (and subsequent immobility) hamstrings the pitching staff.
Tara Wellman (Aaron Miles' Fastball) -- This would, undoubtedly, be the hardest part of the job for me. As much as I sit on my couch and yell at the stupid mistakes they sometimes make, each one of these guys does, in fact, had some kind of positive impact on this season. And for that reason, they had some positive impact on me. (That's where the "personal decision" part comes in!) That said, if I have to pick one guy, it's Ryan Theriot (shhh, don't tell the rest of the Ryan Theriot Fan Club I said that!). Did he have some clutch hits? Sure. But long term, he is not an asset to the 2012 Cardinals. There are much better options -- even guys currently on the roster -- at second base and/or short stop. And hey, he got his ring and proved his point about the "right side of the rivalry" with his former team! At least he has that...
Christine Coleman (Aaron Miles' Fastball) -- Jake Westbrook. Professional decision-wise, the money from his contract can be used to get a starter who's more reliable. Personal decision-wise, he got his nice moment in winning Game 6 of the World Series and being recognized for it by La Russa during the championship celebration. (Not that I needed to give you both of those decisions, I know. But I did think TLR calling out Westbrook was an awesome moment -- and the perfect one to now send him off into the sunset with as well.)
Kevin Reynolds (Cards N' Stuff) -- I certainly see the value between letting Westbrook go...but "path of least resistance" is the tie-breaker here. I go with Ryan Theriot. I like his contributions, but when we sign a new shortstop, the man is obsolete. Skip-haters like to pretend that Theriot is a viable option at 2B...and offensively, his bat interests me (except for the fact that he is a smurf with a power hitter's swing)...but the idea that Theriot should be a second baseman is to buy into the myth that his defensive struggles are related to the position he plays. The man wasn't a good SS primarily because he is not a good defensive player...period. The kind of errors and misplays he makes are not limited to SS. He's not versatile enough to play 3B, he's no better than anyone else at 2B, he is a liability at SS even in a back-up role, an outfielder he is not, and he can't switch-hit. When it comes down to it, I like the dude...but keeping him makes no sense once we sign a starting SS. That makes him a complication if he IS on the roster. Let him go and move on.
Miranda Remaklus (Aaron Miles' Fastball) -- Tyler Greene. He's had his chances. I don't see him being any less 'skittish' with Matheny. He may actually scare him more. I also give kudos to Ryan Theriot. He was good to have around to give guys breaks at the end of the season/postseason. But just going ahead and cutting your losses with him would be fine. Like Tara said, Ryan got his WS ring and did so on the right side of the rivalry! With the end of the season, I think the bylaws of the Ryan Theriot Fan Club will permit us to discuss this issue.
Bill Ivie (I-70 Baseball) -- I fully support the "Ryan Theriot needs to go" movement, but in the spirit of the question, he is currently a free agent and not a Cardinal. I'm jumping on the Westbrook ship here. He is a waste of space that is keeping home town boy Mark Buehrle's dreams from coming true.
Erika (Cardinal Diamond Diaries) -- Adios, Ryan Theriot. The fascinating part of Aaron's question was the caveat stating the player "will never be able to play for the Cardinals again." So even though Theriot is already out the door as a free agent, I use my vote to ensure he won't sneak back in through a window. The Cardinals need their middle infielders to be skilled at fielding a batted ball, preferably while spinning. Sure, Theriot proved he could get on base, but his defense made me cry. (Seriously, there were tears once.) That is why, for the sake of Matheny, Theriot must go. And stay there.
Chris Mallonee (Birds on the Bat 82) -- It has to be Theriot. Bad defense, bad arm, no power, decent average. Too many other good pieces on this team to bring him back.
Nick (Pitchers Hit Eighth) -- It's the "the one you exile will never be allowed to play for the Cardinals again" portion of this one that makes the decision for me. I can envision a scenario where Jake Westbrook has some usefulness on-field. If I were confident enough that his realized payroll-space gain would be used efficiently to replace him, I might go that route - but failing that and assuming he CAN (not that he will) add value, I won't boot Jake. If there is one player I wouldn't lose sleep about NEVER coming back to the Cards, it's Ryan Theriot. I'm not as viciously opposed to him as many, because I think that given a finite set of responsibilities, he can be useful too - but it's that "never come back" thing that leans in his favor. In summary, I'd love to have Westbrook's salary space in that vein of the question, but the never come back clause outweighs it in Theriot's favor.
Dathan Brooks (Twitter) -- My first thought when I saw this this morning was Theriot. I've thought about this most of the day, going over the roster in my mind. In the spirit of "helping a brother out", I think kicking Theriot off the team is the way to go. Not releasing him, not non-tendering him, not trading him away for a bucket of balls..."kicking him off the team", just like Hooks said! Theriot, yer outta here!
Mark (Retrosimba) -- I'd say goodbye to Arthur Rhodes. Being part of a World Series championship team is quite a cap on his long career. He's 41. Time to retire as a player. Why push it?
Dustin McClure (Welcome To Baseball Heaven) -- In the end though my vote goes to Tyler Greene. This is strictly for personal reasons. I realize he’s not a mainstay in St. Louis and also a low cost option. I know he has his share of supporters (especially the anti LaRussa folks) but I just don’t ever see him contributing much to the Cardinals. I’d love him to prove me wrong and personally flip me off at the 2013 Winter Warm up after a strong 2012 season but I’m not holding my breath.
Malcolm Pierce (The Redbird Menace) -- Ryan Theriot, for all the reasons listed so far. He really doesn't have a position. He certainly can't play shortstop and his defense at second has been underwhelming as well. Skip Schumaker was almost my choice, and I hope we never see him in the infield again. I liked the 2b experiment, but it probably should have ended a couple years ago. But unlike Theriot, he could have some use as the last outfielder on the bench. If I had to see one of them back--and I hope I don't--it would be Skip. Jake Westbrook is frustrating but if he actually has infielders behind him instead of Theriot and Schumaker, he might still be useful as a fifth starter.
JE Powell (STL Fear The Red) -- I would have to go with Jake Westbrook. I think you can find a comparable pitcher for less money and then the money saved could be used to upgrade somewhere else, perhaps 2nd or short. Westbrook frustrates me every time he takes the mound and I just don't feel is worth what he is paid.
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From the third most wins in the history of professional baseball, to a man who has never coached a professional game in his life...
Mike Matheny has been appointed the next head coach of the St. Louis Cardinals. He will be officially introduced Monday late AM via press conference. (The third straight Monday that a STL team is having a press conference on coaching matters, FYI.)
Obviously, we don't know what the hell to expect from Matheny. He played for the Cardinals from 2000 to 2005, let to walk to San Francisco when Yadier Molina needed to be promoted and get playing time in the bigs.
From 2003-2005 he won the Gold Glove 3 times, before gutting his way through a concussion plagued 2006 season that forced him to retire about the time that the Cardinals were celebrating their first World Series win since 1982.
Now's he back with the club, a year after another World Series celebration. Let's hope this isn't an indication of his timing, right?
We know that Matheny is going to have the Cardinals respect from the jump. He was a team leader in both St. Louis and San Francisco. He has worked the past couple of years amongst many charities in St. Louis and, by a majority of accounts seems to be a good man. He knows the organization and the fans and isn't that far removed from the demands of what it's like to be an MLB player. Many have been quoted as loving his managerial chops.
But...
He's also never managed a team before. A team that's going to be expected to be in the playoffs in 2012.
There really isn't a precedent for this in baseball, at least not in the modern post the 1970's. Avery Johnson left the NBA court and jumped right into coaching a few years back and had some success with Dallas without any formal training. But other than that, it's not something that really happens. Coaches almost always have to pay their dues in baseball and Matheny is eschewing protocol and inserting himself into the fray without a background.
I don't know how this will play out.
I do know that it's going to be interesting to find out.
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11-11-11
Veterans Day.
Let’s thank the people that let us read crap like Cards Diaspora daily without worry. We’ve got a bunch of first world problems in this country, but nothing we can’t overcome. So let’s quit our bitching and realize that a bunch of good men and women have taken the onus of keeping the good going by joining our military.
Thank you.
Albert Pujols. 
The dark cloud that hangs over everything Cardinals related, albeit, less ominously in the wake of another World Series victory. Still, his tenure in St. Louis may have ended.
The managerial search is step one in this story. Will Albert like XXX as the new manager? Does this hire of XXX have any effect on Pujols’ decision? Etc al.
After Thanksgiving, the contract talks will begin to heat up. Recent reports have the Cardinals sticking with 210-215 million over 8-10 years as their standing offer and close to the max they’re willing to go. Pujols has been thought to want 300 million over 10 years.
It’s a wide chasm. One that I’m not sure how either side will cross meaningfully to get the deal done. So It begs the question… do you want Pujols back? And at what cost?
The first part? That’s pretty easy. Pujols had his worst season in the Major Leagues and will still end up in the top 10 of the NL MVP voting. Those types of players don’t come around often. So yes, yes we do want Pujols back.
The second question is more sticky.
I’ve often said here and in real life that the people who complain that the Cardinals are paying too much for a player are so very, very stupid. It’s not your money. You pay for tickets a few times a year and if Holliday’s contract might cost you 10 more bucks in 2012 than in 2011… It’s well worth it to have elite talent and pay more for it. Why people are obsessed with cost controls of a business they don’t have a stake in is way beyond me.
Tomorrow isn’t promised. I want to win NOW.
Will I chastise Kyle Loshe for not ‘earning’ his 11M per year? Hell yes I will. Will I question what money is spent where? Damn right. Will I lambast ownership for spending gobs of money on players? Never. I want the best players and the best players cost more money. Again, if that means a quarter more per beer… well, 8.75 isn’t a steal as it stands.
I do, however, know that the Cardinals aren’t the US Mint. They don’t print money. So I respect the fact that they have a budget of 110-130M per year. As a fan, it’s my duty to figure out how they best should spend that cash.
I can’t deny that Pujols was good in 2011. He was.
I also can’t say that I didn’t feel he wasn’t nearly as good as his best. He was injured for the first time. He slumped out of the gate for the first time. He swung at pitches he never swung at before this season for the first time. Again, he was good, but I can’t help but feel that he was a little less good than we’re used to.
Maybe this was a symptom of knowing that he was playing for the richest contract in baseball history. Many have speculated this.
Something was just off about 2011 with Pujols. He did more than enough to help the team win… but the dominance was slightly diminished.
Perhaps you’re like me. Sitting there and going back and forth on Pujols and if the 27-30 million he wants per season is justified.
Honestly? I could argue both sides at this point. But I can’t help but feel that Pujols is going to have to be the one that backs off a little on these negotiations. Not a ton, mind you. But a couple million here and couple million there.
Then again, I reserve the right to make up my mind on this at a later date. The World Series hangover is starting to recede a bit. Winter is creeping in on fall and we’ll all have more time to study up.
Stay tuned.
no commentsHandicapping the St. Louis Cardinals manager race? 
Why not.
Tito Francona (3 to 1) – The biggest free agent manager and most experienced candidate, Mr. Francona interviewed this week in Cincinnati. Called the experience a chance to talk baseball with the Cardinals search committee. Probably didn’t ask if the new Busch Stadium had an actual Busch tap in the Cardinals dugout. Hodak’s is hoping against hope Francona comes down a bit on his salary demands secures the job.
Jose Oquendo (3 to 1) – I’m not kidding here, I really have STILL not heard Jose Oquendo speak. Is it like Ozzie Guillen? I bet it’s like Ozzie Guillen. Only softer. Oquendo seems to get the most support from hard core Cardinal fans, usually citing something about the guy being waiting in the wings for 11 years. I can’t get over the fact that, me, a guy who watches pretty much every game and follows this team as a paid hobby has never heard the possible future manager speak. In all seriousness, that’s a pretty big job of the manager. What does he SAY!
Mike Matheny (5 to 1) – The former catcher is all over St. Louis talk radio telling people how great it was to get a job interview. Occupy STL has since waivered on the support for Matheny. Dude was a tremendous catching tactician back in the good old days when he was playing, you know ( / looks up stats) HOLY SHIT he was playing in 2006? You’re old, dude.
Ryne Sandberg (7 to 1) – The Linsday Lohan of the managerial interview circuit. Some teams want to bring him in to see for themselves what the fuss is about. Others, like the Cubs, cut ties before the rumors even get started. What exactly is Ryne doing in these interviews that keeps getting him sent down to AAA every year? Coke? Because that would be awesome. And this analogy would be spot on.
Chris Maloney (7 to 2) – Dude has been with the Cardinals organization since… 1991! He has to be really resentful of LaRussa at this point, right? 1991 the Cardinals weren’t just bad. They were piss poor. And he’s down in some shithole A ball club trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel for the Cardinals? Woof. Seems to be the solid money choice for the ‘longer shots’.
Joe McEwing (50 to 1) – Started managing in 2008. Promoted to AAA in 2011. Nothing is possible, even when you’re short! I think Matt Sebek’s head would explode if Super Joe got the nod here. Pujols would be gone and Holliday traded for 45 Lil’ Lil’ Ecksteins.
Jim Riggleman (60 to 1) – What happened Jimmy? I had you pegged as the favorite 10 days ago and now it’s not even clear if you’re interviewing or not. Looks like packing up and leaving the Nationals wasn’t the show stopper the Cardinals were looking for. You needed to have Jason Werth eat some chicken and drink some beer in the clubhouse. Those are the morality plays we’re looking for, bub.
Albert Pujols (2500 to 1) – How awesome would this be? You could throw on that couple of million you were going to give TLR in 2012 to his contract, get back the whole contract in media attention the next couple of years as Pujols tried to pull off the modern miracle of player/coach for a pro team. ESPN Classic would dust off ever player/coach clip from the early part of last century. It’s a win/win!
no commentsPlease note the following:
1. There were only 400 of these trophies made. So very few people got them. 10 years later, a scum bucket buddy of a buddy inside the Rams had already received and decided to pawn one of these.
2. How wildly he overestimates the value of the trophy. SOOOOO Rams.
3. The cheese dick negotiating style against one of the best negotiators of all time. Kind of like bringing Justin King to a Packers game. HEY-OOOH.
4. Jeans and tennis shoes. SO ST. LOUIE.
Enjoy…
The Monday Ramblin’s have been on hiatus for the past couple of weeks as, you know, the Cardinals won the World Series and stuff. So we’re 
back…
The Cardinals managerial race is heading around the turn and should be completed in the next 7-10 days. It’s shaping up to be a Francona Vs Oquendo photo finish. But if I may, can I ask a question. Has anyone heard Jose Oquendo speak? I can’t recall a single interview with him on TV or radio. Ever. I legitimately couldn’t tell you what he sounds like and that’s, I guess, a bit concerning. I guess he wouldn’t have stuck around for all these years if he was an idiot, but having a microphone jammed in your face after every game is something you’ve got to deal with as a manager…
That was the most St. Louis Rams loss of all time. 2 safeties? 130 something yards on the ground. Some pretty good WR work for once. Lose by 6 in overtime. I said it last week, that win against New Orleans probably cost Spags his job at the end of the year. 0-8, well, it’s a terrible team with some serious injuries. Whip New Orleans? Now it’s pretty suspect when your team squats off an egg against another 1 win team…
Speaking of coaching changes – later Davis Payne. I don’t know enough hockey to tell you if the dude got a fair shake as the Blues head coach. I do know that the Blues are have the best smoke and mirror job going. Probably in the history of sports. I swear, every single casual fan believes that the Blues are a young team, loaded with talent, on the come-up. But they’ve been the young team, loaded with talent, on the come-up for like 5 seasons now. No one likes to call them on this…
I kind of bet DeWitt is pissed he’s got to spend money to add another flag pole to the scoreboard in right field. I said they should have added two the last time and just had it empty as a reminder that we’re looking for another one. So feel free to do that this time. Us fans like crap like that…
It would be a place like Happy Valley that ends up being a child’s worst nightmare. I mean, Vince Lombardi pretty much sums up our feelings on the Penn State child sex scandal: LINK HERE…
My favorite stat from the Mizzou move to the SEC? Prior to Missouri joining the SEC, the conference had 191 national championships in all combined sports. After Missouri joins the SEC, the conference will have 191 national championships in all combined sports. Personally, I can’t wait for my first road trip to Columbia to see 10K Kentucky fans in Missouri Arena and the few Tiger fans that showed up wondering what they got into…
I didn’t think this would be the case back in August. But I’m already ready for some more baseball…
no commentsThe St. Louis Cardinals are just giving us too much to work with at this point. Since we last spoke things have happened and we’ve got 
opinions on those things.
Yadier Molina won another Gold Glove. This is his fourth one in succession passing Mike Matheny as the new ‘Gold Glove’ standard for St. Louis catchers. The general consensus seems to be that the advanced metrics say this wasn’t his best season, but it was given to him because it was his high water mark offensively. Well fuck advance metrics. If my life is on the line and I need someone to erase a runner, block a breaking ball in the dirt or pick a guy off first… I’m picking Molina. And if I don’t get to pick Molina, then I’m dead. So by that measure Yadi wins. The Gold Glove is INFALLABLE.
Albert Pujols submarined a championship ‘autographed ball’. He wanted too much money according to Darren Rovell of CNBC. So now we don’t get the opportunity to spend 19.95 on a lithographed fake ball with a gaudy Cardinals logo. The names were probably going to be in gold or some shit too. Any other year, this is a non-story. Contract year? Well, happens that Carlos Beltran switched agents from Scott Boras to Dan Lozano a couple of weeks back. Lozano happens to be Pujols’ agent as well. Any guesses on who might have leaked that little World Series ball to the press? Is it greedy as hell? Yes. Are you really under the impression that any professional athlete isn’t? Shame on you.
Bob Forsch died. Age 61 of an apparent heart attack. The only pitcher in STL Cards history to throw more than 1 no-hitter was last seen at the 2011 World Series. Mr. Forsch was a player a bit before I really was born slash too young to remember baseball, but by all accounts he was a very workman pitcher for the Cardinals in the late 70’s early 80’s. He won more games and pitched more innings than any other pitcher at Busch Stadium II. Seemed like a pretty class guy as well, so condolences to his friends and family.
The manager situation is coming into shape. Francona’s agent is letting everyone know how interested the Cubs are in his client, so that must mean that the Cardinals are fairly serious about Terry as their next skip. He’ll command around 4M per season, so this one might come down to money. Personally, I thought the Cardinals should have tried to swing a trade for Joe Maddon, but it looks like he’s happy in Tampa and will sign an extension with the Rays. If Francona won’t come off his price any or the Cubs snatch him up… looks like Oquendo is breaking early on the inside rail. The interview process starts next week for most guys and the Cardinals are internally shooting for 11/15 as a hire date for a new manager.
Like I said, not much going on with this team, right? Let’s bring back some Friday Links, shall we?
- Newscaster wins 2M on air. LINK HERE
- The literal version of 'Look At Me Now'. LINK HERE
- 15 reasons Mr. Rogers was the best. LINK HERE
- Meanwhile, at McDonald's. LINK HERE
- This is why you don't steal food at work. LINK HERE
- Great bus ad. LINK HERE
That's it for the week. You know, unless another 50 things happen with the Cardinals. Then we'll be back here to yap about it. Have a big weekend and let's see if we can't get some of this good STL mojo to the Blues. I think they need it.
no commentsIf you are in the ‘Pujols should go, and the Cardinals should spend this money in other areas’ camp, then here is your silver bullet:
I don’t know if this is true. I do know that Darren Rovell is a reporter for CNBC and not wont to go on his official Twitter and put out a bombshell like that without some sort of sourcing.
Not. Liking. This. At. All.
Tony LaRussa is man of many faces.
Literally.
So what better way to honor the 16 year skipper of the St. Louis Cardinals than by looking back at some of the best faces he's made in a Redbird uniform. Some happy. Some serious. Some reflective. All LaRussa.
The "Vina Just Goosed Me".
The "Championship".
The "Gargamel".
The "Sunglasses At Night".
The "Flobee Infomercial".
The "Shingle".
The "ARF".
The "Drunk TLR".
The "Kiss Off H8Ters".
The "Crusty Professor".
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